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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 34 post(s) |
Admiral Goberius
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.19 00:00:00 -
[1]
Chronitis I ran my first bomber gang since the patch today.
The new bombers rock, you did a great job. To the people whining here: learn to use the ships
1. they are not solo ships
2. they are not meant to kill ceptors
3. they need to be mixed with different shiptypes in a gang
Firing bombs is still very hard to setup tho, due to the possibility of decloaking each other while cloaked. Please either remove that feature or add a way to see friendly cloakers on overview or change the way bombs are fired (make them speed towards where your camera is facing instead of ship's nose direction or something).
- Gob
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Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
Admiral Goberius
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.19 11:04:00 -
[2]
You shouldn't think of the cloak as a mean to ambush. Real ambushes in this game are impossible except for the following:
1. log in trap
2. bridge/cyno (hotdrops)
This is because of local chat.
The usefullness of the cloak is in the mobility when roaming. If you used ravens instead, the smallest gate camp would stop you right in your tracks and force your gang to log off and try to straggle home the next day. With warp while cloaked, you can easily glide through the camp unseen and continue your adventures.
Recons are good ships to mix with bombers but not necessary. What you need is a lot of interceptors, they complete the bomber's weaknesses - and even tho they cannot warp cloaked they can still burst through camps and generally survive, so they share the mobility advantage. Ceptors bring in the necessary tackling and especially webbing, so the bombers can drop their dps from outside disruptor/med shortrange guns range. Bombers bring in the dps that ceptors are lacking.
You also need to know how to properly fit the bomber but that shouldnt be too hard to figure out.
- Gob
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Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
Admiral Goberius
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.19 11:38:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Saggy Glands
Interesting you claiming you had success with them, Gob. Especially with all the dead stealth bombers I see on your killboard.
I understand all the ones that died to small support. But this poor soul getting one shotted by an Apoc? Embarassing.
That's about as bad as yourself dying to a Megathron.
So from your killboards at least, it appears the stealth bomber are working out about as expected. 
Here's a shocker: ships die when you pvp.
No wonder you are constantly whining you are unhappy with the changes.
- Gob
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Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
Admiral Goberius
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.19 14:29:00 -
[4]
Tbh bombers melt hacs aswell as long as they are painted.
- Gob
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Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
Admiral Goberius
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 00:40:00 -
[5]
Its redicoulus how many people post without any idea what they are talking about.
A BS isn't going to one volley you at 40km unless you are tackled.
One BS is certainly not going to pop 2 bombers before 10 bombers nuke it.
Current torp bombers can deal with any ship but frig classes if you have painters and webs in the gang.
If you want to survive against ceptors you need to bring anti-ceptor ships.
All of you thinking the bombers should be effective as solo or bomber only gangs need to realise this is not how eve pvp works.
- Gob
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Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
Admiral Goberius
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 05:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Abram Enroch
Originally by: Admiral Goberius
All of you thinking the bombers should be effective as solo or bomber only gangs need to realise this is not how eve pvp works.
So a gang of only T1 frigs can handle a good range of targets (not necessarily solo targets).
A gang of T1 cruisers will work. Or a recon only gang. Or ceptor only gang. Or BS only gang. Those will work just fine, correct me if I'm wrong.
But you're saying (imo admitting) a gang of SBs wont work - even not against it's intended "focused role" target - even when the target is solo without support.
Don't you realize something is broken here?
Already answered in a previous post.
You can't roam with a gang of battleships or t1 cruisers because camps will stop you, while gangs of ceptors and recons do not have an hard hitting dps ship without the bomber. So the new bombers do cover a missing role in those fleets.
Never said a stealthbomber only gang won't work against a solo battleship, as long as the bombers fit a point. It is however completely pointless as you dont exactly spawn in some kind of arena with the hostile battleship and fight it out.
- Gob
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Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
Admiral Goberius
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.21 01:55:00 -
[7]
DNS I think you need to chill out. They will never take you seriously if you keep raging and overdramatizing.
I.E.: A bomber hull doesnt cost 50 mil, and theres no reason to rig it really.
- Gob
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Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
Admiral Goberius
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 00:43:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Admiral Goberius on 22/04/2009 00:43:38
The new bomber is different but finally usefull in pvp. The old bomber was just a toy for a few guys who wanted to be special without any real effectivness in either fleets or solo.
If you take the new warp-while-cloaked bomber and give it 100-150km range and ability to melt ceptors you are effectively creating a powerhouse.
Re: feedback
I have done some more gangs and the bombers works really nicely imo. I tried using bombs aswell but those seem to be lacking. Here is the problem with bombs:
- 15 second delay before it explodes: anything that isnt afk will mwd out of range very easily or warp, even BSes. Using a dictor bubble wont solve the problem because the first bomb kills the bubble. Also atm bombs kill wrecks (is this intended?).
- The damage is too low to kill targets. I am not talking about the single bomb, I dont expect that to be effective ofc. But even when using the max ammount of bombs (6) simultaneously, buffered ships will not die. That applies to cruiser classes too since the sig radius scales down the damage.
So what happens is, you spend 10 minutes setting up all bombers so they are 30km from the target in different directions, align... uncloack - fire bomb - warp. Result: anything at the keyboard will mwd away and survive, the rest will still be alive if they have plates/hardeners, sometimes even just DCU II. Unrigged sniper BSes, some sniper hacs and stuff like blackbirds will maybe die :)
So bomb aren't very viable atm.
All the things that could boost bombs:
- Boosting raw damage
- Reducing explo radius
- Boosting range of the explosion
- Reducing detonation time and speed them up
- Boost hp so more bombs can be used at the same time
Ofc a mixture of those changes could turn bombs into overpowered mini-DDs.
Thing is, it isn't clear which role you (CCP) intended for bombs. I remember it being something in the line of "anti-blob weapon". That however doesn't say if its meant against static blobs, BS only blobs, clustered blobs, or as a support against blobs while a fight is going on.
Perhaps if you want them to be effective tools against high concentrations of targets only, you could consider making each bomb's damage depend on the amount of targets caught in its blast.
- Gob
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Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
Admiral Goberius
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 14:09:00 -
[9]
The stream of whines in this thread is all coming from people who tried flying their bomber solo or alone within a random gang and complain they are being useless.
The new bomber is a specialised ship that requires strategy and planning to be successful. If you expect to just undock and go pwn noobz or join a fleet of random ships with your little glass cannon then you will be left disappointed, because you are doing it wrong.
The whole point of glass cannon is that you die when you get shot at too long. This means you have to use the extra PG to add additional buffer and that you have to stay outside the 24-30km disruptor range. I see loads of people complaining they die to drones, well you have to be really awful at eve if you get killed by drones without being tackled, in fact just by mwdÆing you will reduce med and large drone damage greatly.
To use the bombers as cloaking, stealthy assassins you have to enter a region and move through it picking your fights and nuking all targets of opportunity, be it lone travelers/ratters (easy) or people at jump bridges and single targets off from a blob (harder). Some think sniper hacs or recon gangs already do this better. Well you are wrong: sniper hacs have a very hard time getting unstuck once locals decide to blob you into logging off. Sniping hacs also cannot jump into a bubbled gate outnumbered and get away from the camp. Recons simply lack the dps to kill targets of opportunity effectively before his friends warp in. Also most of the recon dps is in the drones, which you lose the first time you are forced to quickly disengage.
Damage from torps is balanced. Use painters and webs, then you will see hacs getting 1-3 volleyed by a small group of bombers (i.e. 8 bombers). This is without rigging the bombers anyhow.
Survivability of the bomber is also very good because of the tactical option that the cloak while warped and speed gives you in picking your fights while roaming. If you engage an even numbered enemy gang with your bombers head on then yes you will get obliterated. Otherwise they wouldnÆt be glass cannons would they? The point is you donÆt engage head on with bombers ffs. So stop whining and start using your brains, or go back to blobbing in your align/f1 monkey-boats.
- Gob
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Admiral Goberius
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.24 19:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: logeoff now
Originally by: Saggy Glands
If you fly around being worthless 90% of the time and enjoy it, you should go to work for the government.
THIS! I've been trying to tell people all the time :D But nooo theyl come up with superduper numbers on paper plans that only work O N the freaking paper, period!
SB-s are great POS defenders with bombs. There it ends... kinda. Yes they gan ubergank BS-es coming through gates but so can HACs and even much more fficiently + they dont have to run if couple of interceptors jump through.
You don't get it do you? The people posting pro bombers have actually used them with effectiveness. On TQ. It's not numbers on papers.
Read Black VV's post it already says even too much on how you should properly use them. And hacs have *nothing* to do with bombers when used for roaming fleet, different strenghts and weaknesses. If you can't understand the dramatic difference between roaming in hacs and roaming in a bomber/ceptor recon fleet then I am not surprised you fail at using the new bombers.
- Gob
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Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
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